Thirteenth Meeting - 22 December 1997


List of attendees - 22 December 1997


A list of meeting attendees is here.



The meeting opened at 9.00 am.


The Chairman welcomed members to the meeting, noting the following apologies:

  • Cr Mark Bonnano, represented by Mr Mark McLeay
  • Mrs Kerry Chikarovski MLA, represented by Mr Alan Bonham
  • Cr Ken Finn, represented by Mr Henri Richard
  • Ms Deirdre Grusovin MLA, represented by Ms Judy Ferry
  • Cr Peter Olah
  • Cr Kevin Schreiber
  • Mr Ross Sheerin, represented by Mr Bob Hayes

The Chairman also noted that Cr Darel Hughes would be represented for part of the meeting by Cr Andrew Petrie.



Members adopted the provisional agenda and agreed to proceed in the order listed with the following items included:

  • 5B - Issues raised by Mr Zammit
  • 5C - Issues raised by Rockdale Council
  • 5D - Fair Share brochure and relocation of the departure point at the east end of the east-west runway.

It was agreed to include discussion of the newly released Draft EIS on Badgerys Creek under Agenda Item 7.



The Draft Summary Record of the twelfth SACF meeting held at the Commonwealth Parliamentary Offices, Phillip Street, Sydney, on Friday 28 November 1997, was accepted without amendment.



Support for Badgerys Creek

The Chairman advised he had written to Premier Carr conveying SACF's support for the development of Badgerys Creek as Sydney's second airport.

Meeting with the General Manager, Sydney Airport

The Chairman advised he proposed meeting with Mr Tony Stuart and a group of SACF members in the New Year.

Relocation of the Runway 16L Threshold

The Chairman advised that he would discuss this matter further with the Minister.


The meeting agreed to discuss this matter under Agenda Item 5.

Secretarial support for the SACF representatives on the IMC

The Chairman advised that DTRD is discussing the provision of secretarial support with Messrs Lidbetter and Hill as requested at the last SACF meeting.

Sydney Airport Environment Management System

The meeting noted Sydney Airport's offer to make a copy of the Sydney Airport Environment Management System available for members to read at Airport Central. It was agreed that a copy will also be provided to the SACF Secretariat who will, initially, make the document available to (1) Mr Hill and (2) Mr Lidbetter. This copy will later be available for other SACF members to read.

BASI Investigation

The Chairman advised that DTRD would advise SACF when the BASI investigation into the Qantas jet which landed prior to the end of curfew on 15 October 1997 is completed.

Meeting about the Mobile Noise Monitoring Study

Airservices advised a meeting would take place before the February SACF meeting between Mr Leigh Kenna of Airservices and Ms Valerie Bray to discuss the mobile noise monitoring study.

Sydney Airport Air Quality

Members noted that Sydney Airport would brief members at the February meeting about the high level of PM10 (very fine particular matter) reported in some of the Sydney Airport air quality monitoring reports.

The Trident

The meeting noted Airservices' undertaking to report to the February meeting about timing on the implementation of the trident.

The Sydney Airport Health Study

Mr Jeremy McGrath, Sydney Airport, advised that the report on Part 1 of the Health Study could be made available but drew members' attention to a statement by the author of the mental health study report that dissemination of the report at this stage could compromise the outcome of the study. Given this, Mr McGrath suggested making it possible for members to read the report at Airport Central. Ms Habig undertook to discuss the matter further with Mr McGrath outside the meeting.

Sydenham Issues

Mr Albanese asked why the Minister has not made a decision on the question of the potential buy-out of weatherboard houses in Sydenham and compensation for Sydenham businesses. The Chairman undertook to raise the matters with the Minister.



David Lidbetter gave a report on the IMC meeting of 11 December 1997. Airservices provided additional information. The following issues were addressed:


IMC has proposed a three month trial of ICAO "A" for 34R departures to achieve a higher altitude for aircraft over the eastern suburbs. Airservices has written to Qantas and Ansett requesting their views on the procedure being introduced. The meeting was advised that to date no formal response has been received although Qantas has informally indicated agreement.

A noise monitoring terminal is already situated at Edgecliffe and a portable monitor will be situated at Maroubra to provide baseline noise data prior to the trial taking place.

The Chairman advised he had received a letter from the Minister supporting the proposed trial of the ICAO "A" procedure. The letter was tabled at the meeting.

Departures over Maroubra

Mr Lidbetter reported that residents from the eastern suburbs had questioned him about the 34R departure path being on the 075 radial instead of 078 in the vicinity of Maroubra as indicated in the 'Fair Share' brochure. Airservices indicated there had been a mistake on the map which showed the flight path based on the 078 radial instead of the 075 radial.

David Lidbetter indicated he would take up within the IMC the possibility of aircraft using the 078 radial in order to avoid reciprocity.

North-East propeller aircraft flight path

Mr Lidbetter said propeller aircraft departing from runway 34R appear to have diverged from the flight path shown in the brochure. Airservices replied that CASA requirements caused changes which resulted in the aircraft currently having to rely on radar vectoring. From 26 February 1998 new procedures will be introduced which should result in the aircraft following the published path.

The Chairman agreed to write to Mayors in the eastern suburbs to ask for feedback on Fox Studio's proposal that a timetable for rotating use of the flight paths be drawn up to give agreed times of respite.

Representatives from Randwick and Woollahra Councils advised they were opposed to the proposal.

34L track deviations

Mr Lidbetter discussed an aircraft track which appeared to go over Drummoyne/Gladesville, deviating from the published flight path. This matter would be discussed at the next IMC meeting.

Noise-sharing modes

Mr Lidbetter discussed the need to increase the use of the east-west runway to achieve the Plan's noise sharing goals.

Runway 25 - ILS and threshold

Mr Lidbetter discussed the usefulness of an ILS on Runway 25 to assist in the achievement of the noise sharing targets.


Mr Lidbetter tabled runway movement statistics.

Airspace management changes

Mr Lidbetter reported IMC still had a large amount of work to do to improve arrival flight paths. Airservices indicated there are substantial developmental tasks to do as well as a long training period associated with the arrival paths.

The Chairman emphasised that the new arrival flight paths under the Plan need to be implemented as soon as possible to give relief from overflights. The next phase of the Plan would be crucial.

Boston Airport presentation

Mr Lidbetter reported on a presentation given to the IMC about operations at Boston Airport.


Mr Zammit's concerns about the Plan

Mr Zammit proposed the following motion:

That the Sydney Airport Community Forum

  1. notes that the LTOP 'targets' of 17% of total movements to the north of KSA have not been met, and is in fact currently double that level;
  2. notes that most of these movements to the north have been departures, which both AA and DTRD acknowledge are more disruptive to a greater number of people than arrivals;
  3. considers the implementation of the LTOP to have been a dismal failure in the period so far;
  4. reaffirms its commitment to the sharing of aircraft arrival noise as equitably as practicable;
  5. calls on the Minister to order an immediate moratorium on all takeoffs over residential area, especially Mode 9 operations, when wind conditions are 'light and variable' and/or there is a downwind present;
  6. supports the principle of noise sharing as the heart of the LTOP, but expresses its grave concern that this has not happened and is unlikely to happen without the Minister ordering significant changes to the way the LTOP is being implemented."

Mr Zammit spoke to the motion and emphasised his belief that the Plan imposes an unfair noise burden on the residents of the north-west sector. He advised the meeting that he had met with the Minister to express these views.

The Chairman then opened up the meeting for discussion on Mr Zammit's motion.

Mr Albanese requested his view be put on record that it was not the fault of David Lidbetter or Kevin Hill that the aircraft movement sharing targets are not being achieved.

Several members spoke at length on the issues raised by the motion. In particular it was pointed out that by demanding a moratorium on the take-offs over the suburbs in certain wind conditions the motion was, in effect, proposing a reversion to the parallel runway regime. Emphasis was placed on the fact that it is not possible to spread arrival tracks close to the Airport but that under the Plan it has been possible to spread departure flight paths.

Differing views were put on the relative noise impacts of landings as compared to take-offs. (At the end of the meeting the Chairman asked DTRD to provide the Forum at its next meeting with information clarifying this issue.)

Data was tabled which indicated that point (b) of the motion was factually incorrect. A number of members also strongly criticised a map which Mr Zammit tabled as being misleading as it only showed departure flight paths (and failed to show arrival paths).

There was general consensus that the construction and operation of the second airport is a key issue (see Agenda Item 7).

Similarly there was broad recognition that rapid progress needs to be made towards increasing the use of the noise sharing runway modes.

A vote was taken on Mr Zammit's motion which was defeated.


Rockdale Council's requests

A letter from Rockdale Council to the Forum was tabled by Cr Steve Holroyd. The main concerns expressed by Rockdale Council were:

the need for further SACF representation on the IMC
that IMC minutes should be available to the SACF meeting.

David Lidbetter responded that the IMC will be preparing a report for circulation in the New Year which will show the progress on the Plan's implementation.

The Chairman informed Cr Holroyd that there was no reason to increase membership on the IMC because David Lidbetter and Kevin Hill were representatives for the whole SACF and not particular areas.


Fair Share brochure and east-west runway departure point

Ms Patrinos stated that she felt the flight paths shown on the brochure did not indicate the actual flight paths and that Canterbury had jet aircraft overflying the area where there should have been propeller aircraft. Mr Lidbetter agreed to speak together with Ms Patrinos and Airservices outside the meeting to clarify the situation.

Ms Patrinos questioned the potential for increased noise impact on Canterbury if the east-west runway departure point for aircraft departing to the west were to be moved further to the east.



The monitoring reports distributed to members were noted by the Forum.



Members noted correspondence. Summary of Draft Environmental Impact Statement (Badgerys Creek) Copies of the Draft EIS for Badgerys Creek were distributed to the meeting.

Mr Albanese proposed the following motion: That SACF reaffirms our support for the construction of a full international 2nd Sydney Airport at Badgery's Creek as an urgent priority.

We reject the suggestion by the Minister that a decision on construction would be delayed for up to 18 months taking the issue beyond the next Federal Election.

Further we note continuing Reports of a 4th Runway being proposed for Sydney (Kingsford Smith) Airport.

We call upon the Federal Treasurer to stop any costings being made for this proposal which would be a disaster for the residents of Sydney. We call for a report to be made to the February meeting of the SACF to confirm that there will be no further work done on this proposal by the Federal Government.

The resolution was adopted by the meeting.

The Chairman undertook to write to the Treasurer to ascertain the veracity of the claims about a fourth runway.



Kevin Hill asked on behalf of Stephen Mutch when the "out to sea" trials would take place. DTRD undertook to write to Mr Mutch, explaining the current situation.

Maria Patrinos asked Airservices to clarify whether there is a restriction for the use of certain aircraft on particular runways. The meeting was advised that the IMC is looking into the matter as the requirement for long haul jets to use the main runway limits the delivery of respite.

The Chairman asked DTRD to provide a paper for the next meeting, showing a comparison between the impacts of take-offs and landings.



Members agreed to the next meeting date of 20 February 1998.