Fifteenth Meeting - 22 May 1998


List of Attendees



The meeting opened at 9.00 am.

The Chairman welcomed members to the meeting and noted the following apologies:

  • Mr Anthony Albanese MP, represented by Mr Philip Lingard
  • Cr Mark Bonanno
  • Cr Ken Finn, represented by Mr Henri Richard
  • Cr Greg Medcraft, represented by Cr Andrew Petrie
  • Mr Stephen Mutch MP
  • Ms Sandra Nori MLA
  • Cr Peter Olah
  • Ms Maria Patrinos
  • Cr Ross Sheerin
  • Mr Paul Zammit MP, represented by Mr Alister Simington.

The Chairman reported to the meeting in opening that he had spoken to Captain Ray Heiniger, the Group General Manager Flight Operations and Chief Pilot of Qantas, who had offered to speak to SACF in response to the SMH report of 3 April 1998 that pilots are not accepting LTOP noise sharing runways. The Chairman proposed that Captain Heiniger be invited to the next meeting.



Members noted the provisional agenda and agreed to proceed in the order listed with the following items included:

  • 9A Mr Albanese's motions
  • 9B Sutherland Shire Council support for Badgerys Creek
  • 9C Expansion of international passenger terminal - raised by Mr McClelland
  • 9D Ashfield Council's submission
  • 9E Mr Zammit's Private Member's Bill motion
  • 9F The Commonwealth transfer of its remaining airport holdings from the FAC to the Sydney Airports Corporation Ltd - raised by Mr Lidbetter on behalf of Leichhardt Airport and Urban Environment Research Group



The Chairman undertook to incorporate the following amendments in a revised summary record for the fourteenth meeting which would be circulated for confirmation at the next meeting:

  • under Item 5 to include Mr Clarke's comments that the 16R arrival path over the north shore has been moved to the east in recent years from where he would expect it to be and that there is scope for moving it to the west over bush and industrial land. The IMC Chairman undertook to discuss with Mr Clarke the possibility of moving the arrival path

    - under Item 6 to reflect the fact that Mr Clarke had not voted against Mode 8

  • under Item 6 to refer to the tabling of a paper on Mode 6A by Randwick Council.


The Chairman agreed to the request that in future the draft summary record be distributed to members within a maximum of two weeks of a meeting to enable any members' amendments to be incorporated in a consolidated draft which would be circulated for confirmation at the following meeting.



4.1 Curfew

Members discussed a report on unapproved curfew operations prepared by DTRD following a request for information at the fourteenth SACF meeting about a Qantas jet which landed prior to the end of curfew in October 1997.

DTRD assured the meeting that the problem which occurred on 15 October 1997 is not systemic and industry has been required to have contingency plans to ensure that no similar fuel shortage situations arise.

DTRD advised that the BASI report on the incident was available and would be circulated to members before the next meeting.

Cr Holroyd said that he believed that the DTRD paper may have understated the number of take-offs over the suburbs after 10.45pm. It was suggested that any specific details of such incidents should be taken up with Airservices in the first instance.

4.2 Fox Studio Proposal

The meeting noted the paper on this issue prepared by DTRD. The Chairman requested DTRD to include a discussion of the issues of safety and operational practicality in the paper. He then undertook to write to Mayors in the eastern suburbs (and to Ms Grusovin in lieu of the Botany Mayor) attaching DTRD's revised paper and seeking further views on Fox Studio's proposal.

4.3 Movements over the North - Early March

Members noted the paper distributed by DTRD advising that the relatively high incidence of days with strong southerly winds in early March resulted in a higher than normal use of Mode 10 and a lower use of Mode 9 when the parallel runways were in operation.

Mr Lidbetter requested that further reports to SACF on runway usage should as a matter of course include reference to the noise sharing targets.

DTRD tabled two papers, about respite and runway movements, with illustrative maps attached.

There was general discussion about whether propeller aircraft should be included in estimates and about whether reports were better kept simple.

The Chairman requested a plastic overlay be included with the maps to show individual suburbs.

4.4 Response to John Clarke Recommendations

Members noted DTRD's response to John Clarke's recommendations. Mr Clarke advised that he did not agree with DTRD's view that no new survey of community attitudes to aircraft be carried out at the present time.

The Chairman advised the meeting of his view that LTOP needs to be fully implemented before a community survey could be conducted as otherwise distortion could occur.

The Chairman undertook to have the issue of upgrading the integrated noise model to predict noise from aircraft manoeuvring on descent raised in the appropriate ICAO forum.

4.5 Landings and Take-Offs Paper

The meeting agreed that the paper on landings and take-offs prepared by DTRD would be held over for discussion at the next meeting of SACF.

4.6 Kurnell

The Chairman reported that two meetings had taken place to discuss compensation for Kurnell. He reported that at the second meeting he met with Stephen Mutch, Kevin Schreiber and Kevin Hill to discuss the issue. He expressed the view that most people would agree that Kurnell is severely exposed to aircraft noise, particularly as there is no curfew respite, yet it does not qualify for insulation. He informed the meeting of the proposals put to him for additional facilities to be built at Kurnell to compensate residents for 24-hour exposure to aircraft noise.

Mr Hockey advised that ideas suggested to compensate Kurnell residents included a community centre, a swimming pool, a wharf to connect La Perouse by ferry and $10,000 per house for those planning extensions (to allow for Council's insulation requirements).

Members debated at some length the appropriateness of different forms of compensation; whether the case for compensation of Kurnell residents was stronger than that for residents of other areas close to the Airport; and whether support for Kurnell could be justified in circumstances where further assistance might ultimately be sought for a "buy-out" of the area. A number of members expressed the view that they would expect any assistance provided for Kurnell to flow on to areas which they represented.

In the light of this discussion, the Chairman asked that, before Stephen Mutch and he met with the Minister in the following week, Cr Schreiber and Mr Hill should discuss the matter further with Cr Cotter, Mr McClelland and Ms Grusovin (or possibly with Cr Cotter on behalf of the three) to endeavour to identify a proposal that could be confined to Kurnell.

Cr Cotter suggested that Kurnell compensation could be paid for from the Sydney Airport Noise Levy and proposed the following motion:

That SACF urges the Minister to increase the Sydney Airport Noise Levy.

The Legislation allows for a 10 per cent per annum increase and this has not been acted upon. This should be implemented as a minimum.

Subject to confirmation that revenues will exceed the present, SACF believes a more realistic level to be a levy of $10.00 per international traveller and $5.00 per domestic traveller.

Cr Cotter also suggested that additional funding was required for the Sydney Airport Noise Amelioration Program as a result of many residents having to contribute to the cost of the work beyond the $47,000 cap established by the Government. He asked whether DTRD could provide some information to SACF on the average total cost (ie Government plus any resident contribution) of residential work. DTRD agreed to look into the practicality of providing this information.

While Cr Cotter's resolution was adopted by the meeting, it was not carried unanimously, the Chairman and Mrs Chikarovski dissenting.

4.7 Maroubra Track

The meeting noted that DTRD had written to Mr Lidbetter on the issue of the Maroubra track and the issue could be settled outside the meeting.

4.8 Manchester Airport Consultative Committee and Forecasts of Jet/Non-jet Movements

The Sydney Airports Corporation distributed copies of the Manchester Airport Consultative Committee Report for 1994-95.

Ms Alroe reported that forecasts of jet/non-jet movements are being revised because of the Asian currency crisis which had impacted on both international and domestic markets. This information would be available in two to three months.

Members asked whether it was proposed that there be some lengthening of existing runways at Bankstown Airport so as to allow increased operations by BAe146 and possibly other regional aircraft. The Chairman undertook to investigate the issue and write to members informing them of his findings.

4.9 Noise Monitors and Flight Paths

Mr Leigh Kenna of Airservices Australia advised that the maps provided to the meeting showed the position of noise monitors at one point in time. He described the criteria used in deciding where to place mobile noise monitors and advised that any suggestions for the placement of mobile monitors be directed to the IMC.

4.10 Mode 6A

The meeting agreed to defer discussion on Mode 6A until the next meeting.

4.11 The Year 2000 Problem

The meeting also agreed to defer discussion on the Year 2000 Problem.



ICAO A Trial

Mr Lidbetter reported that Mr Hill and he wished to dissent from the conclusions in the Airservices report on the ICAO A trial which had been distributed to members. Their view was that many of the measurements taken were significant and there was clear anecdotal evidence that many people had noticed an improvement after the introduction of ICAO A.

Mr Bill Bourke expressed the view that the noise changes under ICAO A as monitored by Airservices were not perceptible and that ICAO A imposes additional costs on airlines. Industry would be reporting these costs to the IMC. Mr Don Brown, the IMC Chairman, advised that the airlines had undertaken to continue the ICAO A trial for the time being.

The Chairman wished it recorded that the Woollahra Council representative was not present for the item.

Mr Richard expressed the view that the airlines had not been implementing ICAO A procedures. The Chairman proposed that Flight Operations Managers from Qantas and Ansett be invited to address the next SACF meeting to comment on this point. He also undertook to write to the affected Mayors, requesting some community feedback on the ICAO A procedure.

Information on Respite and Runway Movements

The meeting noted the coloured maps showing runway movements and respite for January, February and March 1998 (tabled under Agenda Item 4.3) which had been prepared by the IMC.


The meeting noted that new SODPROPS procedures came into effect on 10 April 1998.

Motion proposed by Mr McClelland

The Chairman agreed to convey the following resolution, which was adopted, to the IMC.

The SACF notes the significant health and social consequences of residents suffering aircraft noise, in particular between the hours of 10.00pm and 11.00pm and again between the hours of 6.00am and 7.00pm on the following morning. Accordingly, SACF calls upon Airservices Australia to ensure that, as far as possible, any area which is the subject of aircraft noise between 10.00pm and 11.00pm shall be relieved of that noise between the hours of 6.00am and 7.00am on the following morning.

Paper submitted by Mr Bonham

Mr Clarke spoke in support of the conclusions in Mr Bonham's paper, drawing attention to the likely growth in demand at Kingsford Smith Airport.

Mr Clarke requested DTRD to prepare an analysis of slots allocation and LTOP targets within a month.

The Chairman proposed that Mr Clarke convene a meeting between a small group of SACF members and DTRD to discuss the compatibility of the slots arrangements with the LTOP targets.

The Chairman asked that Mr Ernst Krolke, the General Manager of Airport Co-ordination Australia, be invited to attend the next SACF meeting.


The meeting noted the contour maps provided.



In introducing Dr Robert Hyde of Macquarie University, the Chairman expressed regret that Ms Ros Habig was not able to be present to hear his address on PM10 as at the previous meeting she had expressly asked for an explanation of the occasional high occurrence of the fine particles.

Dr Hyde informed the meeting that the Airport monitoring stations had only picked up high levels of fine particles when the winds exceeded 20 km per hour from a narrow range of wind directions. This indicated that the particles were originating from an area bounded by O'Riordan Street and Gardeners Road. The area has a number of light industrial activities such as cement mixing. Dr Hyde suggested the particles could be coming from these sources. He advised there was no evidence that the particles were coming from the grounds of the Airport, nor connected to Airport activities.

Dr Hyde responded to a number of questions and the Chairman proposed that any member requiring further advice should write to Dr Hyde.



The reports were noted by the meeting.



Members noted correspondence.

Mr Lidbetter raised concerns over the ability to have cranes in the M5 construction works lowered when required.

The Sydney Airports Corporation advised it had responsibility for arranging for the cranes to be taken down. It will present its arrangements for the lowering of the cranes to the next meeting.

Mr Lidbetter noted that Minister Vaile's letter to Minister Scully dated 25 March 1998 concerning the proposed M5 works indicated that consideration was being given to changing the "mandated" middle of the day noise sharing period from 11.00-3.00 to 11.30-3.30. It was suggested that, although progress had been made in addressing the congestion problem which had been occurring at around 11.00am, there were strong reasons for extending the period to 3.30pm. DTRD noted that any extension of the mandated period was ultimately a matter for the Minister.



9A Mr Albanese's motions

Mr Lingard spoke in support of the following motion which, following a vote, was not adopted:

That this meeting supports the admission of North West Residents Group to the Sydney Airport Community Forum and recommends that the Minister for Transport and Regional Development approve their application for representation.

The meeting agreed to defer discussion on motions 2 to 4 until the next meeting.

9B Sutherland Shire Council support for Badgerys Creek

Cr Schreiber advised that he had circulated a mayoral minute to his councillors about the Southern Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils' (SSROC) resolve to embark on a unified campaign to support an airport at Badgerys Creek. He asked the Chairman to give his support to Badgerys Creek as the second major Sydney airport.

9C Expansion of the international passenger terminal

The meeting agreed to defer discussion of Mr McClelland's letter of 24 March 1998 in which he raised the concern that further expansion of KSA would expose thousands of residents near the Airport to additional aircraft noise from aircraft taxiing in close proximity to their homes.

9D Ashfield Council's submission

As no-one was present to represent Ashfield Council, discussion of the submission tabled on behalf of the Council at the previous meeting was deferred.

9E Mr Zammit's Private Member's Bill motion

Mr Simington spoke in support of the motion. While noting that a formal motion was not necessary, the meeting agreed that Mr Zammit's Private Member's Bill should be listed for discussion at the next SACF meeting on the proviso that Mr Zammit be in attendance.

9F Leichhardt Airport and Urban Environment Research Group (LAUERG)

Mr Lidbetter tabled a copy of a letter which he and Kevin Hill had received from LAUERG which raised concerns about the Government's policy in relation to the leasing of Sydney Airport.

LAUERG expressed concern that the joint Ministerial Media Release issued by Ministers Fahey and Vaile on 10 May 1998, omitted reference to the Government's previously stated policy that "The Coalition will not lease Sydney and Sydney West Airport until there is a satisfactory solution to the current aircraft noise problem in Sydney".

The Chairman agreed to write to the Minister to seek clarification of the position.



Members agreed to the next meeting date of 10 July 1998.

The meeting closed at 12.45pm.