Fourteenth Meeting - 19 March 1998


List of attendees - 19 March 1998


A list of meeting attendees is here.



The meeting opened at 9.05am.

The Chairman welcomed members to the meeting and noted the following apologies:

  • Cr Mark Bonanno, represented by Cr Morris Mansour
  • Cr Ken Finn, represented by Cr Margaret Martin
  • Cr Greg Medcraft, represented by Cr Andrew Petrie
  • Ms Sandra Nori, represented by Ms Ros Habig
  • Cr Peter Olah, represented by Cr John Griffin
  • Mr David Saul, represented by Mr Jim Socratous.



Members noted the provisional agenda and agreed to proceed in the order listed with the following items included:

10A Year 2000 Issues raised by Ms Patrinos

10B Letter from North West Residents Action Group raised by Mr Albanese

10C Kurnell

- Compensation raised by Cr Schreiber

- New Developments raised by Mr Hill

10D Alan Bonham's paper Sydney Basin Future Airport Requirements raised by

Mr Clarke.



Mr Lidbetter advised that page 4 of the summary record did not accurately reflect the questions he had raised concerning the 075 and 078 radials. Later on in the meeting DTRD undertook to provide advice to Mr Lidbetter to clarify this issue.

Cr Holroyd informed the meeting of his view that Rockdale Council's letter to SACF asking for (a) increased membership of the IMC to include areas to the east and west of the airport; and (b) minutes of the IMC to be forwarded to SACF members, had been dealt with too hurriedly at the last meeting. The Chairman undertook to respond to the Council's letter.



Mr Tony Stuart, the General Manager of Sydney Airport, spoke to the meeting about the Airport's strategy for the future, assuring the Forum that the Airport would have stronger ties with the community. He answered a number of questions relating to:

  • works assisting implementation of LTOP
  • rumours of a fourth runway
  • expected impact of the Olympics
  • sale of the Airport
  • Manchester Airport issues
  • anticipated ratio of jets to non-jet aircraft
  • possible increases in landing charges
  • value of the Airport
  • second airport for Sydney
  • operational efficiency.

Mr Stuart undertook to provide the next SACF meeting with information on the Manchester Airport Consultative Committee and to provide Mr Zammit with information on forecasts of jet and non-jet aircraft movements at KSA.



Meeting with Mr Tony Stuart

At the twelfth meeting, the Chairman had proposed meeting with Mr Tony Stuart, the General Manager of Sydney Airport, and a group of SACF members. This undertaking was fulfilled by Mr Stuart's presence at this meeting.

Timing of the Relocation of Runway 16L Threshold

At the twelfth meeting, the Chairman had undertaken to raise the matter of timing of the relocation of the runway 16L threshold with the Minister. The Minister had subsequently responded, advising that the project is an essential part of LTOP and that the Airport will have it completed within the new few months. There was a short discussion on the impact of the relocation.

Meeting to Discuss the Mobile Noise Monitoring Study

SACF noted that a meeting had taken place between Mr John Clarke, Ms Valerie Bray and Mr Leigh Kenna (Airservices) on 17 February 1998 to discuss results of the mobile noise monitoring study which was carried out early in 1996. A report on that meeting prepared by Mr Clarke was distributed to SACF members.

It was agreed that DTRD would co-ordinate a response to the recommendations contained in Mr Clarke's report. It was also agreed that some of the issues would need to be referred to the IMC for consideration.

Mr Clarke expressed his view that the 16R arrival path over the north shore had been moved to the east in recent years from where he would expect it to be and that there is scope for moving it to the west over bush and industrial land. The IMC Chairman undertook to discuss with Mr Clarke the possibility of the arrival path being moved slightly to the west.

The Chairman requested that information be provided on where noise monitors are situated in relation to the actual flight paths. [DTRD to provide]

Air Quality

At the twelfth meeting the FAC had undertaken to address the issue of the high level of PM10 (very fine particulate matter) reported in some of the Sydney Airport air quality monitoring reports. The meeting agreed this would be discussed under Agenda Item 7.

The Trident

At the twelfth meeting it had been agreed that the IMC Chairman would report on progress on the implementation of the trident. The meeting agreed this would be discussed under Agenda Item 6.

The Qantas Jet which landed Prior to the end of Curfew in October 1997

DTRD had agreed at the twelfth meeting to advise the outcome of investigations into the Qantas jet which landed prior to the end of curfew on 15 October 1997. DTRD reported that BASI would shortly provide its report on the incident and was currently awaiting corroboration of facts from the airline. DTRD reported it had raised the general issue of contingency fuel carriage with those airlines which were seeking approvals to operate international passenger jet landings during the curfew shoulder periods in the forthcoming northern summer scheduling season. The operators were being advised that the Department would not give any further approvals until operators have given an assurance that they have put procedures in place to avoid fuel shortage situations such as that which arose on 15 October 1997.

DTRD advised the Act provides for a $100,000 fine for curfew breaches but that no airline had been fined since the Act came into effect in 1995.

DTRD undertook to table a report on all unapproved curfew operations which have occurred since the Act has been in place and to describe what action has been taken.

Sydenham Matters

Mr Albanese proposed a resolution concerning Sydenham businesses and weatherboard houses. It was agreed to vote on Mr Albanese's resolution under Agenda Item 10.

Fox Studio's Proposal for Rotating use of Eastern Suburbs Flight Paths

The Chairman advised the meeting that he had written to the Mayors of Randwick, South Sydney, Botany and Woollahra, asking for feedback on Fox Studio's proposal for rotating use of the eastern suburbs flight paths. Replies from three councils had been received. Cr Petrie advised the Woollahra Council wished to make a fair and proper assessment of the proposal before responding.

The Chairman asked DTRD to provide more information on the impact of the proposal.

Mr Zammit's Motion on LTOP

The Chairman reported he had written to the Minister conveying information about Mr Zammit's motion which had been discussed and defeated at the thirteenth meeting.

Reaffirmation of support for a Second Airport at Badgerys Creek

The Chairman reported he had written to the Minister reaffirming SACF's earlier support for the construction of a second airport at Badgerys Creek. A response from the Minister was tabled at the meeting.

Rumours of a Fourth Runway

The Chairman reported he had written to the Treasurer to ascertain the veracity of rumours of a planned fourth runway. The Treasurer had responded, denying any plans for a fourth runway.

The "out to sea" proposal

The Chairman reported that the Minister had written to Mr Mutch, providing advice on the IMC's progress on this issue. Mr Hill advised that an alternative to the "out to sea" proposal had been discussed at a recent IMC meeting and was being further developed. He advised that possible new procedures had been evaluated using a flight simulator. Mr Mutch requested that he be given a copy of CASA's advice regarding the safety of the 'out to sea' proposal.

A Comparison of the Noise Impact between Take-offs and Landings

DTRD tabled a paper describing the relative noise impacts of landings and take-offs. The meeting agreed to defer discussion until the next meeting.



Ms Kerry Chikarovski advised the meeting that there had been an increase in aircraft traffic over her electorate during the previous two weeks. The Chairman undertook to investigate the reason for the increase.

Mr Don Brown, the Chairman of the Implementation and Monitoring Committee, made a presentation on four main issues which had been discussed by the IMC: SODPROPS, Modes 8 and 6A and the Trident.


The IMC Chairman advised the meeting that SODPROPS had been introduced in October 1996 to get as many aircraft over Botany Bay.

He reported that Airservices proposed to extend the use of SODPROPS from 2 April 1998, making it the preferred procedure throughout the day, subject to traffic and weather conditions. Mr Brown told the meeting that in order to maximise the capacity of this mode (and therefore to maximise the number of hours during which it will be available for use) it was proposed that departures by long haul jets and a small number of jet aircraft would be to the north from the main north-south runway (Runway 34L). He also foreshadowed some non-jet aircraft operating on the east-west runway during SODPROPS. He advised that this form of Mode 4 should have a capacity of about 48 movements per hour.

Mr Brown responded to questions which were asked about the safety of SODPROPS.

The meeting expressed strong support for the increased use of SODPROPS. However a number of members questioned whether Mode 2 rather than Mode 4 should be the preferred SODPROPS mode.

Mode 8

The IMC Chairman reported that since 4 December 1997, there has been substantial use of Mode 9 and many days when Mode 9 has been used for more than 10 hours. He advised that when the prevailing winds are from the north there are no alternatives to Mode 9, apart from Mode 7. Mode 8 would be a possible alternative to potentially give respite to residents living to the north-west of the Airport and at Maroubra.

Mr Brown further reported on the level of safety analysis and consultation with the air traffic controllers which has taken place before any new procedures such as these are ready for implementation.

There was general discussion on the merits of the Mode. Some members expressed concern that it would be used as a substitute for Mode 7 and therefore increase movements over the east. Other members expressed the view that as many alternative modes as possible should be available to assist in the achievement of the LTOP movement targets and to provide periods of respite.

Ms Patrinos requested it be put on record that she was not happy at the prospect of Mode 8 as the Earlwood area gets noise from both 34L and 25 departures; hence the area would get no respite from Mode 8.

When put to the vote, seven members (Robert McClelland, Andrew Petrie, Steve Holroyd, John Griffin, Maria Patrinos, Margaret Martin and Deirdre Grusovin) voted against the adoption of Mode 8. Mr Albanese requested it be noted that Mr Zammit was not present for the vote.

Mode 6A

The meeting was advised that Mode 6A was developed from Mode 6 and is a relatively low capacity mode which offers respite from Mode 9 for residents living to the north-west, north-east and the part of Kurnell impacted by landings onto the new runway. It was further advised that the aim is to avoid days when aircraft operate in Mode 9 for very long periods. It has a relatively low capacity of up to 50 movements per hour and can be used during low demand periods.

After some discussion about the merits and disadvantages of the mode, the Chairman requested that DTRD provide more information to members at the next meeting so that they can consider it further.

Randwick Council tabled a paper on Mode 6A.

The Trident

Airservices gave a presentation on the trident and highlighted the complexities of the procedure (which is not used anywhere else in the world).

There was general discussion on the possible numbers of aircraft on each leg of the trident and on the location of the point at which aircraft would join their final approach. CASA indicated that the development of Global Positioning System (GPS) procedures would enable non-jet aircraft to be spread more across the trident.

A number of members expressed the view that the proposal presented by Airservices was a 'watered down' version of the trident that was contained in the Airservices report. Particular concern was voiced at the timetable for the introduction of trident and the restructured arrival airspace.

Airservices advised that the restructured arrival airspace would reduce the flexibility for changing runway modes (and thus could impact on the achievement of the LTOP movement targets).

Airservices advised that it could only be brought in as part of the restructuring of the arrival airspace and that this would take approximately two years.

Mr Clarke proposed the following motions:

  1. That the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) be asked to urgently develop the ICAO standards for the introduction of a GPS and its application to the "Trident"
  2. That the "Trident" return to the IMC for reconsideration of its implementation in accordance with the LTOP.

The motions were adopted by the meeting.



Due to pressure of time, the Chairman requested the Sydney Airport's report on airport developments as well as the paper on air quality be tabled, copied and distributed to members by the Secretariat for consideration before the next meeting. Ms Habig requested the EPA rather than the FAC present on this issue.



The monitoring reports distributed to members were noted by the Forum.



Members noted correspondence.



Mr Albanese proposed the following motion which was adopted by the meeting:

That the Sydney Airport Community Forum (SACF) expresses its dismay at the Minister's rejection of its unanimous recommendation regarding compensation for Sydenham business and the offer of voluntary acquisition of weatherboard houses in Sydenham and other areas closer to the Airport.

We call upon the Government to implement these and future recommendations of the SACF if the community is to have any confidence in the consultation process.

10A Year 2000 Issues

Ms Patrinos asked about the Government's guidelines for the airline industry and regulatory bodies in relation to the Millennium Bug and what has been done to address the issue.

The Chairman requested DTRD provide information on this issue for the next meeting.

10B Letter from North West Residents Action Group

Mr Albanese reported that the North West Residents Action Group had recently written to SACF, requesting representation on SACF. He requested a response to their letter. The Chairman undertook to respond.


(i) Kurnell - Compensation

Mr Schreiber asked for compensation for the residents of Kurnell. The Chairman undertook to convene a small meeting of Kurnell representatives to discuss Kurnell issues before the next SACF meeting.

(ii) Kurnell - New Developments

Mr Hill informed the meeting that the co-generation plant at Kurnell could have major impacts on flight paths. CASA is examining the potential for turbulence problems to be created by gases emitted at high speeds from any new stacks.

The Chairman undertook to write to the Hon Craig Knowles MLA, the Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning, asking him to delay approval of the co-generation plant and to take into account any effect on flight paths.

10D Alan Bonham's paper Sydney Basin Future Airport Requirements

Mr Clarke tabled Mr Alan Bonham's paper. The Chairman agreed that this be included for discussion at the next meeting.

10E Ashfield Municipal Council's Submission to SACF

Cr Morris Mansour tabled a submission on the Long Term Operating Plan.



Members agreed to the next meeting date of 22 May 1998.

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